Saturday, 21 November 2015

Sexism and Misogyny in Poker

There has been a great deal of debate about sexism and misogyny in poker swirling around Twitter and other social media platforms lately. Unfortunately, the fact that these issues are even prevalent in the first place is still being debated. It is an uphill battle for the small minority of women that exist in poker to have their opinions be heeded with appropriate gravity. I’d like to share some stories and female points of view that I believe show pretty clearly how monumental these issues are for women in poker. If you care about poker as an industry, it’s in your best interest to make the environment as welcoming as possible for new players, and that means we need to start listening to women.

Normally this would be the part of the blog post where I provide definitions for sexism and misogyny, but I don’t want this to devolve into a debate over semantics. As you read further, forget whatever definitions you have in your head, and keep only the following assertion of mine in mind before reading on: An inexcusably large percentage of male poker players treat women like shit.

It's More Real Than You Think


Since women make up such a tiny percentage of poker players in any given card room, it can be hard to appreciate the frequency at which these problems occur. Here are three true stories. Each one is about a different professional male poker player. All three are among the hundred most famous poker players of all time, and all three either have had or still do have prominent sponsorship deals with major poker sites.

Pro A is patently disgusting. I’ve had two separate girlfriends tell me they had their asses grabbed by this man. Neither girl had ever spoken a single word to him. Both instances took place in the Rio and occurred one year apart from each other. A masseuse I know confirmed this behavior and shared a few similar stories detailing how outrageously gropey he is.

Pro B is well liked. You would be surprised to hear that he was accused of repeated sexual harassment by a female in the poker world while representing his sponsoring site. I’m not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the outcome due to the lawyers involved, but it was not pretty.

Pro C was the one that surprised me most. A female poker player accused him of rape. Upon finding out about this, another female that’s connected in the poker world instantly spoke up saying she too had been raped by Pro C. His sponsorship contract was terminated the very next day.

I can only assume my credibility will be called into question since I have not named these men, but that is a decision for the victims to make, not myself. There are other factors at play as well (i.e. lawyers). The details are intentionally kept to a minimum, but this is all real.

And if we expand our search of inappropriate behavior to non-famous poker players, the stories only get more common and appalling. A female dealer I know was talking to a player about being hired for a private event in his hotel suite. She went to look at the room to discuss logistics and was slipped a date rape drug in a glass of water. Fortunately, her proverbial alarm bells went off and she was able to flee the room. She passed out seconds later in the elevator. A family friend of mine who is now retired from the Nevada Metropolitan Police Department strongly urged us to not say anything, both for legal and for safety reasons. This made us sick.

Keep in mind that none of the above is public information. These are just a few stories that I happen to know of because I am close with the victims. Imagine how many countless parallel stories there must be out there that we’ll never hear.

I’m sure virtually everyone reading this agrees that there is nothing even close to acceptable about the behavior in any of the above stories. My fear is that many readers will think, “No one I know would ever do anything that bad, so this doesn’t concern me.” I have two responses to that: 1) These incidents are far more common than you would ever like to believe, and 2) While these actions are on the extreme end of the spectrum, they are still on the same spectrum of male poker players treating women like shit.

A Few Female Perspectives on the Matter


For the day to day occurrences, it can be hard for men to fully understand how pervasive and problematic the microaggressions are. Rather than provide my distanced male observations, I’d like to share a few female perspectives that show how tiresome it is to have to deal with this stuff every day.

Professional poker player Danielle Anderson told me, “The pre-existing disproportionate ratio of males/females alone is enough to make walking into a card room an overwhelming experience for women. Throw any minority group into a situation where they are vastly outnumbered, and it can be very intimidating. Add to that equation the prospect of sitting in close proximity to someone who may make sexist remarks, unwanted advances, and even unwelcome touch (all things I've experienced firsthand countless times) and it's not exactly a welcoming environment for females.”

In this powerful video, Kristy Arnett speaks with tremendous candor and humor about a decade’s worth of experiences as a woman in poker. She describes what it was like to start out as a young, female video commentator: “Two weeks after I make my video debut in poker, there’s a forum called TwoPlusTwo… there’s a thread named Kristy Arnett. In this [thread] there’s ‘teeth crooked like she got kicked in the mouth by a horse. Did she get hit in the face with a frying pan?’ ‘Haha’ someone replies. ‘No, you mean a wok?’ Sexist and racist! I was 21. I was impressionable. I was naive. I was innocent really. These things went straight to the heart.” She added, “People on the internet were telling me that I didn’t deserve to be interviewing these poker players because I did not have big boobs.” And she describes the devastating effect this type of criticism had on her self worth.

In an extremely illuminating blog post, Cate Hall writes, “I can take a joke. I can take a compliment. But the amount of bullshit I contend with while playing poker — the incessance, the variety, the sheer volume of it — is totally exhausting...I have heard some male pros — I make no claim about their representativeness — take the position that this kind of behavior is innocuous, on the theory that it’s flattering or benign or exploitable. It can be all of those things in certain contexts. But by and large, it is instead irritating or unnerving or embarrassing. And it sends women a consistent signal that they are alien objects of curiosity rather than people who belong at a poker table.”

(As an aside, Cate is right in the middle of these discussions and is decidedly far more knowledgeable about all of this than I am. She is also extremely articulate and knows how to get straight to the point. I highly recommend reading the short blog post that the above quote is from.)

According to Alex Dreyfus, women make up four percent of the player pools in live tournaments and 9 to 11 percent in online tournaments. One study claims the contrast is even more stark, "Although women make up the majority (54%) of online gamblers worldwide, they represent only 26.2% of online poker players (eCOGRA, 2007)." (Source) You’d have to get extremely creative in order to come up with any conclusion from this other than, “the current live poker environment that exists is not as friendly as it could be for women.” Men, poker players, let’s look after our own best interests and work towards changing this. Let’s get more women in the door.

Why We Should Care


Most of us are entrenched in the poker industry, so I’m not going to try to rally us together in the name of some moral high ground like equality and justice for all. No, this is about pragmatism. This is about mutual interests aligning. This is about bringing more people into poker. This is about cultivating an environment in poker that makes new players want to keep coming back. This is about putting more money in our pockets.

Cate Hall concluded the above blog post by writing, “If the poker community wants more women to join the game — in other words, if it wants droves of inexperienced players with pristine bankrolls to sit down at the table — the first step is to listen to current female players when they say the environment in most card rooms is a problem. If we diehard enthusiasts are exasperated, try to imagine how women ambivalent about poker likely feel. Your livelihood depends on it.”

In a casual Skype conversation, Stephanie Stern eloquently and articulately summed up every issue at hand in just three words: “MEN ARE GROSS!”

She went on to say, “I have pretty thick skin and spend a lot of time with guys, but I don't like to play with them, which is why I play ladies events.” I can confirm that she has thick skin. She once fought off two muggers at night with her bare hands to protect a purse that contained absolutely no valuables. We gave her the nickname “Killer” for a reason. If Stephanie doesn’t want to play with us, what sane female would?

Even if you are resistant to finding any common ground on the issues of sexism and misogyny, surely we can find common ground on wanting to open the proverbial doors for the other 50% of earth’s population. Hell, even if you are a bit sexist and/or misogynistic, that could be all the more reason to want more women at the tables, no?

Men, seriously, we’re shooting ourselves in the foot here. Let’s do something about it!

Why Men Need to Get Involved


Before writing this, I felt it might be a bit hypocritical to “mansplain” sensitive issues like sexism. However, every single female I have gone to for advice on how to approach this, without exception, has encouraged me to voice my opinion. Why? Zoe Haxton told me, “When women talk about misogyny, they’re talking about their own experiences of it, even when they don’t want to be, even when what they want to be doing is talking about the issue as a whole, and it comes off as whining. When a man talks about it, it’s not personal, it’s topical.”

Cate Hall Tweeted, “It's so helpful to have men discuss these issues so it doesn't come off as just self-involved grousing.”

Professional poker player Jamie Kerstetter told me, “I think it's important for men to join (but not overwhelm) the discussion because of the fact that women are <10% of the poker community, so allies are necessary to effect any kind of change. I welcome meaningful contribution from anyone who has put a lot of time and thought into this topic, and just request that men listen more and talk less when it comes to women recounting their own personal experiences in poker.”

After all, if sexism and misogyny stem from the imbalanced patriarchy that exists, then it would most certainly be beneficial to have men involved in the process of changing the status quo.

So hopefully I’ve shown that there is a problem. And hopefully I’ve shown that it’s in our best interest to care. The next logical step is asking what we can do.

What Can We Do to Help?


As Cate and Jamie have already said in their quotes above, the first step is to simply listen. What else? Jamie also called forth for allies, so allow me to show some solidarity and publicly add my name to that list.

I would encourage anyone who feels up to the task to speak out when someone is being inappropriate at the table. Even if firmly taking a stance and loudly condemning someone isn’t your M.O., you can still send a powerful message with an innocuous, sarcastic remark like, “I’m sure women love it when you talk that way.” Those judgements linger in our memories, and it’s more difficult to be out of line when you no longer believe that your behaviour is universally accepted.

Perhaps the solution is as simple as abiding by the platinum rule - treat others how THEY want to be treated, a marked improvement over the golden rule. Maybe the momentum needed will come from education and awareness. Let’s encourage an open dialogue about this and let women know their opinions are being heard.

And that brings us back to request number one - to listen. I’m no expert on any of this, but fortunately there are many women around who are.

I'll attempt to lead by example right now. Women, what can men do to help? What is something that we might not realize we should never do? Is there anything in this post you feel that I got wrong or misrepresented? What would you like to talk about that I left out? Let's start a discussion. Please, leave any thoughts you have on this subject in the comment section below and/or on whichever social media outlets you prefer to use.

50 comments:

  1. Very good post. One thing men who care can do is stop complaining when there are Ladies only events. We need these events - I have met many women who were not comfortable enough to play on a table with 9 other men which is usually what we have to do in open events. Ladies events give women a place to get comfortable playing poker - we need more of them not less of them.

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  2. Thanks, Justin for this piece - yes, it helps reading a man's sympathetic take on women in poker. And no, it will not make much difference. I’m afraid live poker will remain a frustrating and masochistic experience for women and to make it more female-friendly we’d have to strip it out of most of its basic premises and arsenal.

    The very setting of a live poker game is a woman’s worst nightmare - the sheer proximity of the male strangers at a full-ring table, the studied projection of dominance and aggression, the intentional provocative talk, threatening postures, and the ‘stare-downs’ are all meant to induce vulnerability, intimidation, self-doubt, and the ultimate surrender of the opponent (see any beginner’s guide to live poker for more!).

    To men, live poker may be a mental game and mastering all of the above instruments can be an exciting challenge. To women, it is an exhausting and unrewarding reality show.

    Poker is great but for a fair and equal battle (and enjoyment) women will have to rely on friendly home games and online rooms. And because I can feel the outline of a doctoral thesis coming on, I will thank you once again and continue the discussion on my own blog (http://www.rankinghero.com/annie.rkh) to leave room for all the congratulatory and hateful messages that are sure to flood the comment section!..
    (As for myself, my own teenage daughters will probably tear me apart for my possibly sexist and defeatist response :)

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  3. One day you will look back on this blog post and feel embarrassed about how mislead you are here. Women don't need any special coddling at the tables. In fact I typically see women treated with the most respect at the tables and when/if anyone acts up the majority of men at the table are usually there to defend/protect her from the asshole. You're getting into the territory wear you are judging all men based on the actions of a small few, similar to how many conservatives are judging all Muslims as potential terrorists. If there is anyone acting out that clearly crosses the line we need to scrutinize that person individually and just not slander a whole gender and tell them how to act right. On a couple occasions I've had older women at my table hitting on me, calling me honey/sugar, placing their hand on my arm, back and even my leg. Although I never found myself interested in either of these women, I was FINE, I played along, and moved on like an adult. You can too.

    If you were to research a little human biology you would learn that males on average are significantly more attracted to high risk/high reward avenues than females on average. Why? Little thing called Evolution. Men tend to be hard wired for ruthless competition while women tend to be hardwired for getting along with others and not crushing dreams people's on the felt. Poker is only mysoginist in the sense that it attracts more of the alpha male type because that's what performs the best overall at the table. So if that's the case you're making then you're participating in misogyny anytime you play a hand.

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    1. To the brave soul too scared to put any name down:

      If you had a better grasp of gender issues you would understand that male/female is a societal concept. And you would also understand that there is a little thing called nurture, where in, boys are often rewarded for risky behavior, and girls are not. By using the word biology in a such a condescending manner you show how misinformed you are. Plus, your description of older women hitting on you is not the same thing as harassment. It is men like you who contribute to misogyny without knowing it. I'm sure you're a 'nice' person, but you need to be me aware and embrace a bit more empathy.

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    2. Mr Bell, you are wrong; most definately..... there may be a small element of nurture that leads to behaviours of the sexes, but fundamentally we are wired differently, no amount of PC claptrap can change that, and yes, men do favour more risky endeavours. Deal with it?

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    3. I think this list makes a fair point in that all men (or a large proportion of them) are being blamed the actions of a few.

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    4. We don't want to blame men who are not saying or doing anything harmful. But if you don't stand up against these misogynist behaviors you are silently complicit.

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  7. Thanks for your post. I really appreciate you writing on this topic because it helped me understand my own experience over the last few years. I play live poker in my home state of Michigan where it seems that female poker players are even less than the 4% of live players that you quoted. Two things I noticed recently in a tournament I played in (Event #1 of the Heartland Poker Tournament in Michigan). The posturing of men was astounding. I heard all about how much they won in previous tournaments, cash games, slot machines, etc. It was a little hard to believe. I mean, why play a $300 buy-in tournament when you have just won an 80,000 tournament in Vegas. The other thing I noticed was the level of gambling addiction. Many of the men at my table were playing in the tournament, while gambling on their phone, and heading for the slot machines at break. So, I would say to men . . . stop the posturing, and check your addiction. Probably the most upsetting thing that happened to me was not from a fellow poker player, it was directly from a security guard at the casino. When I entered the building to play in the tournament, I stopped and asked for directions to the main poker area. The security guard looked at me skeptically and offered his opinion that I looked more like a crazy eights player than a poker player. I shrugged it off but it didn't do much to help my confidence as I walked in to a room of 300 poker players, about 290 of which were men (I counted the women). I see that as a casino issue and lack of training for the security guards. Thanks again for your words. I'm going to continue to push myself to play live poker. I love it. But recently I made the commitment to play more in all female events even if it means significant travel on my part. I just need a break from the men at the table once in a while.

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  8. Justin I just wanted to thank you for starting the conversation. As a live female cash game grinder, it's a topic I live daily. I'd live to add that where you chose play can make all the difference. ..Ladies if you're in Vegas and want to get your feet wet in a live game, I'd recommend Bellagio or Venetian vs some off strip shady room. You're classy, play in a classy room where you will be treated with the respect you deserve.

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  9. I appreciate you writing this blog. I've been a part of several conversations about women in poker and how they are treated. There is a long thread on 2plus2 on the subject.

    What's always amazed me is the complete opposing viewpoints. Some women have many stories of mistreatment while others, myself in this later type, have had no real issues or complaints. I think there are many reasons for this, I think the young, pretty women take more "abuse, harassment, etc" and I think some of them may be more likely to take exception to things older women are more likely to ignore. The older you are the less likely you are to be harassed, at least sexually but I think in all ways really.

    There are also differences in personalities of women and how they conduct themselves at the tables and what they do or don't find offensive. Also what one woman may find offensive another may find funny. I'm very talkative and just unintentionally flirty and I take no issue with foul language or suggestive comments, unless they are obviously way out of line - this I've actually never experienced.

    I've found that older men and even some young ones are helpful and even protective of me at the table. I've seen them make plays against me that likely cost them chips/money. because their play made it obvious I was beat, rather than play the same way I'd seen them play a similar hand against a man at the table. Of course I've played those men who can't stand being bested by a woman but I find these guys so much fun to play against because they are so easy to read and to tilt.

    I think the 3 examples you give about rape and other disgusting behavior is just appalling but I'm sure they aren't exclusive to the poker world. Women are treated badly in many work situations as well. I still think it's good to bring the subject to light and get people thinking about it and maybe get some men to change their behavior. Kudos to you for that.

    I have to add a note to women players because I've known women with this attitude. If you,a woman, sits down at a poker table, in my opinion, you have no right to expect the men to act any different than they would if you weren't there. If they were using foul language or making lewd remarks before you sat down I don't think you should expect them to change because there is now a woman at the table. Yes in years passed it was a given that men didn't talk or act certain ways in a woman's presence, they were supposed to be gentlemen but unfortunately most men get less an less gentlemanly with each generation. So we women just have to overlook behaviors we'd prefer not to have to deal with if we are going to play a game dominated by men. That said, there is still no excuse for the things discussed in this blog, these three men's identity should be made public for the safety of all women players, however I certainly understand and respect you for not being the one to "out" them. Again kudos to you.

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  10. The best message women who have been raped can send to men that this is not acceptable is by reporting it to the police immediately. These men need to be exposed and punished and I'm at a loss to understand why this hasn't happened. Your article mentions lawyers being involved which suggests to me some sort of settlement is being made. As long as women are willing to be silenced by a cash payment, wealthy men will continue to sexually assault them and nothing will change. From my own experience in 10 years as a recreational player I can honestly say I've never experienced any sexism or mysogony in the poker rooms of north west England. Maybe it's a pro thing as celebrities can often get the sense of being entitled to act in any way they want. If you know who has raped these women I would expect you to report it to the police in the same way I would expect you to report any other serious crime you know has been committed.

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